Thursday, 2014-12-11
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| hemlis | hi | 13:44 |
|---|---|---|
| bkuhn | greetings! | 13:44 |
| hemlis | how do you do Sir? | 13:44 |
| bkuhn | Did you have a question about copyleft.org ? | 13:45 |
| hemlis | not yet | 13:45 |
| hemlis | I do want an example of the "written promise/notice" mentioned in the GPL | 13:46 |
| bkuhn | hemlis: are you referring to GPLv3§6(c) and/or GPLv2§3(b) ? | 13:48 |
| hemlis | bkuhn: Can you please help me understand Section 6(c) of GPLv3 with an example ? | 13:48 |
| hemlis | Ya that one | 13:48 |
| hemlis | Section 6(c) | 13:48 |
| bkuhn | hemlis: https://copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech16.html#x21-12800015.1.2 is probably the section of the Guide you're looking for. | 13:49 |
| bkuhn | hemlis: Since you asked, I've now created an easy to remember URL for that in case you need to refer to it again: http://compliance.guide/offer-for-source | 13:53 |
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| yrk | an adaptive caching system, nice | 14:02 |
| bkuhn | yrk: haha, adaptive in the sense that "when someone asks something that I think should have an easy-to-remember URL, I make one" :) | 14:03 |
| bkuhn | It's purely human-powered. | 14:03 |
| hemlis | bkuhn: this written offer cannot be used for regular software right ? | 14:08 |
| hemlis | Since I have no reason that I could not provide the source code along with the binary | 14:08 |
| bkuhn | hemlis: I have no idea what "regular software" means in that context (or probably any other, it's not a term I've heard before). | 14:08 |
| bkuhn | Is "regular software" some sort of industry term I'm not familiar with? Anyone else know? | 14:09 |
| hemlis | bkuhn: is that clause only for GPL code embedded in the hardware specifically in the cases where the hardware do not have enough storage | 14:09 |
| bkuhn | hemlis: I'm not completely sure I understand your question. The Guide explains how the clause works. In addition to reading in full the section I already recommended (i.e., http://compliance.guide/offer-for-source ), I suggest you also read http://gpl.guide/gplv2s3 and http://gpl.guide/gplv3s6 and see if that answers your questions. | 14:13 |
| pehjota | I think hemlis is asking why anyone would provide a written offer for source when distributing software over a network, since the source could just be offered at the same time. Yes, the offer for source is often used with embedded hardware to reduce costs. | 14:16 |
| hemlis | pehjota: but can we use it for any software ? | 14:16 |
| hemlis | if I used it for a desktop app under GPL which is just 5 MB in size | 14:17 |
| yrk | hemlis: any software licensed under the gpl, yes | 14:17 |
| hemlis | and distributed over internet | 14:17 |
| yrk | hemlis: yes | 14:17 |
| hemlis | Would it count as a trick to avoid the distribution of source code ? | 14:17 |
| yrk | hemlis: it is a part of the gpl, so no | 14:18 |
| yrk | hemlis: and it has its drawbacks, so it should be used carefully | 14:18 |
| hemlis | As I might distribute it from Japan or some country where the shipping cost of CD/DVD/Media is high also cost of media is high too, also I might ship it from the most abandoned village to take more money from the user | 14:19 |
| hemlis | would it be violation of GPL ? | 14:19 |
| yrk | hemlis: when someone asks the gpl compliance lab about it, I will often point out those drawbacks and underscore that it is easier to just immediately satisfy the terms of the gpl regarding the source than to, in a sense, write a blank check, to anyone in possesion of the object form | 14:19 |
| hemlis | yrk: but GPLv3 allows me to hold the code and provide it only when I get my money to pay the shipper and also for the media cost | 14:21 |
| hemlis | What are its drawbacks ? | 14:21 |
| yrk | hemlis: primarily: "... valid for at least three years and valid for as long as you offer spare parts or customer support for that product model, to give anyone who possesses the object code ..." | 14:22 |
| yrk | hemlis: that really does mean _anyone_ with the object code | 14:22 |
| yrk | hemlis: as opposed to dealing with just the people who you distribute to directly | 14:22 |
| hemlis | but they have to ask us for code right ?? | 14:23 |
| hemlis | until they pay we would not give them the DVds with the source code | 14:23 |
| bkuhn | The offer for source is oft-abused in the way hemlis suggests. Violators often make an invalid offer, which can only be discovered as invalid when tested. | 14:24 |
| bkuhn | A lot of GPL enforcement work involves testing offers. | 14:24 |
| hemlis | Convey the object code in, or embodied in, a physical product (including a physical distribution medium), | 14:24 |
| hemlis | yrk: I think it cannot be used for software which is not in the hardware you sold | 14:25 |
| hemlis | as the clause specifies it | 14:25 |
| bkuhn | hemlis: if your company is considering using an offer for source, I strongly recommend you hire legal counsel familiar with the GPL and verify that you are complying. It's tricky to use in compliance. I dissuade you from using the offer for source unless space constraints leave you little choice, and then you should work with counsel on it. And make sure you, your counsel, and everyone involved in managing your source fulfillment | 14:25 |
| bkuhn | have read the compliance guide . | 14:25 |
| bkuhn | hemlis: note that no advice you receive on this channel constitutes legal advice and does not excuse you or your company from full compliance with the GPL as written. | 14:25 |
| yrk | bkuhn: hmm, I don't see that as much on on my end (gpl compliance lab volunteer for the past several years) but I don't work on violations as directly so perhaps that's why | 14:25 |
| bkuhn | yrk: well, you're mostly answering licensing questions, right? | 14:26 |
| bkuhn | Also, if you are volunteering for the FSF, note that most of FSF's violation queue is violations that Conservancy found and forwarded to FSF, where we've already passed that step. ;) | 14:26 |
| yrk | bkuhn: yes, but many of those are in the form of "is this a violation...?" | 14:26 |
| bkuhn | yrk: yeah, but those are mostly false positives, I suspect, right? (Classic: "I don't have the product, they won't give me source, isn't that a violation?" style questions, I suspect) | 14:27 |
| yrk | bkuhn: but I agree that I have a strong sample bias | 14:27 |
| hemlis | bkuhn: Can you use Section 6(b) for any software under GPL ? or software in the hardware sold ? | 14:27 |
| yrk | bkuhn: that's an interesing question. I haven't done the numbers. Seeing as how the corpus is large it would be interesting to check | 14:28 |
| bkuhn | hemlis: I haven't answered that question because the manner in which you are asking it seems you are probably missing some background information. I would really recommend you read the copyleft.guide in full, and then come back if you have more questions once you've spent a few weeks studying it and the text of the GPL. | 14:28 |
| yrk | hemlis: also note that gplv2's equivalent clause is slightly different, make sure that you know which version of the gpl is applicable in your particular situation | 14:29 |
| bkuhn | yrk++ | 14:29 |
| hemlis | yrk: k | 14:31 |
| hemlis | bkuhn: ok | 14:31 |
| yrk | bkuhn: I could say "we seem to get a lot of X violation reports..." but it might be my personal memory bias, so I can't reliably answer. and it is true that after I send a ticket to the violation reports queue I forget about it and return to explaining to people that the FSF can't grant them a special exception to the GFDL for that wikipedia photo of a puppy they want to use | 14:31 |
| bkuhn | Ok, I have to go idle for about 45 minutes. | 14:32 |
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