Wednesday, 2015-03-18

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fontanabkuhn: in the original SFLC compliance guide ISTR the sample source offer stated a $10 charge. Now both the Conservancy/FSF Guide and the new SFLC guide give a sample offer where the charge is $5. Is it your view that $10 is now excessive?14:04
bkuhnI remember doing some formula against how much CD media costs.14:05
bkuhnCD media got cheaper. :)14:05
fontanabkuhn: I heard someone argue not long ago that a company ought to be able to charge for labor costs for an employee handling the source release (which would probably be a three-digit figure in the US in many cases)14:07
bkuhnfontana: last time I made a copy onto a CD, it took 2 minutes of labor14:08
fontanabkuhn: well there's the cost of *finding* the source code I suppose, which in some companies can take a while.14:08
bkuhnfontana: I guess there are people in the USA getting paid 3,000/hour...14:08
bkuhn... but why are those people putting CD's together?14:08
fontanabkuhn: some POSAs maybe.14:08
bkuhnfontana: the source needs to be ready to go, GPL is pretty clear on that.14:09
fontanabkuhn: I ask actually because Fedora now ships with a source offer specifying $10.14:09
bkuhnthe offer for source is on a convenience, not a reason to delay having source ready.14:09
fontanaI am going to recommend it be reduced to $5.14:09
bkuhnfontana: ISTR that I have said publicly that when it's over US$50, I get worried.14:10
fontanayes I think I recall that14:10
bkuhnI've routinely gotten money orders for $25 for CCS, all the way back in 2002 I remember doing that.14:10
bkuhnOf all the compliance problems we have in the world, <= $100 CCS offer costs -- PROVIDED that CCS does indeed arrive -- are somewhat the least of my worries.14:11
bkuhnNote that if the company can't legitimately prove that it is the "charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution", then it's a violatoin.14:11
bkuhnfontana: I'd agree that some labor costs are included, but "finding the CCS" isn't "cost of physically performing the ...distribution"14:12
fontanaI'm a little surprised at how companies seem to prefer use of the source offer in circumstances where simultaneous accompanying distribution of source code is feasible. I'm glad copyleft-next does away with the written offer option. :)14:18
bkuhnfontana: yes, it's good that "in your mind" there's a new license that solves these problems.14:24
bkuhnSorry to be harsh.14:24
bkuhnBut we have so many violations in the world of GPL.... I don't think a new copyleft will change that, even if everyone switched tomorrow.14:25
bkuhncf: VMware would be violating copyleft-next too if Linux were copyleft-next'd. :)14:25
fontanaI agree a new copyleft would not change this (and some new copylefts would just legitimize what others consider to be a GPL violation)14:28
fontanabkuhn: I just think that the written offer is a minor form of abuse in practice14:28
fontanawell, in most cases14:29
paultaglabor costs for source remind me of paying for FOIA responses in the public interest14:45
paultag works iirc14:46
paultagOh that might be locked down actually14:46
paultagOh crud, wrong channel14:47
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