Wednesday, 2015-03-18
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| fontana | bkuhn: in the original SFLC compliance guide ISTR the sample source offer stated a $10 charge. Now both the Conservancy/FSF Guide and the new SFLC guide give a sample offer where the charge is $5. Is it your view that $10 is now excessive? | 14:04 |
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| bkuhn | I remember doing some formula against how much CD media costs. | 14:05 |
| bkuhn | CD media got cheaper. :) | 14:05 |
| fontana | bkuhn: I heard someone argue not long ago that a company ought to be able to charge for labor costs for an employee handling the source release (which would probably be a three-digit figure in the US in many cases) | 14:07 |
| bkuhn | fontana: last time I made a copy onto a CD, it took 2 minutes of labor | 14:08 |
| fontana | bkuhn: well there's the cost of *finding* the source code I suppose, which in some companies can take a while. | 14:08 |
| bkuhn | fontana: I guess there are people in the USA getting paid 3,000/hour... | 14:08 |
| bkuhn | ... but why are those people putting CD's together? | 14:08 |
| fontana | bkuhn: some POSAs maybe. | 14:08 |
| bkuhn | fontana: the source needs to be ready to go, GPL is pretty clear on that. | 14:09 |
| fontana | bkuhn: I ask actually because Fedora now ships with a source offer specifying $10. | 14:09 |
| bkuhn | the offer for source is on a convenience, not a reason to delay having source ready. | 14:09 |
| fontana | I am going to recommend it be reduced to $5. | 14:09 |
| bkuhn | fontana: ISTR that I have said publicly that when it's over US$50, I get worried. | 14:10 |
| fontana | yes I think I recall that | 14:10 |
| bkuhn | I've routinely gotten money orders for $25 for CCS, all the way back in 2002 I remember doing that. | 14:10 |
| bkuhn | Of all the compliance problems we have in the world, <= $100 CCS offer costs -- PROVIDED that CCS does indeed arrive -- are somewhat the least of my worries. | 14:11 |
| bkuhn | Note that if the company can't legitimately prove that it is the "charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution", then it's a violatoin. | 14:11 |
| bkuhn | fontana: I'd agree that some labor costs are included, but "finding the CCS" isn't "cost of physically performing the ...distribution" | 14:12 |
| fontana | I'm a little surprised at how companies seem to prefer use of the source offer in circumstances where simultaneous accompanying distribution of source code is feasible. I'm glad copyleft-next does away with the written offer option. :) | 14:18 |
| bkuhn | fontana: yes, it's good that "in your mind" there's a new license that solves these problems. | 14:24 |
| bkuhn | Sorry to be harsh. | 14:24 |
| bkuhn | But we have so many violations in the world of GPL.... I don't think a new copyleft will change that, even if everyone switched tomorrow. | 14:25 |
| bkuhn | cf: VMware would be violating copyleft-next too if Linux were copyleft-next'd. :) | 14:25 |
| fontana | I agree a new copyleft would not change this (and some new copylefts would just legitimize what others consider to be a GPL violation) | 14:28 |
| fontana | bkuhn: I just think that the written offer is a minor form of abuse in practice | 14:28 |
| fontana | well, in most cases | 14:29 |
| paultag | labor costs for source remind me of paying for FOIA responses in the public interest | 14:45 |
| paultag | http://etherpad.debian.net/ works iirc | 14:46 |
| paultag | Oh that might be locked down actually | 14:46 |
| paultag | Oh crud, wrong channel | 14:47 |
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