Tuesday, 2014-12-23
| pehjota | And as paultag notes any existing licensing arrangements under the GPL (which is irrevocable) remain in place. | 00:00 |
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| pehjota | paultag++ :) | 00:00 |
| hemlis | pehjota: ok my question, sir, here is that if I assignment my Copyright to you, would it be required to be registered ? I am talking about the assignment here | 00:00 |
| hemlis | assign* | 00:01 |
| paultag | (this is bordering on legal advice, and I don't feel that I can answer this question) | 00:01 |
| paultag | pehjota: :D | 00:01 |
| pehjota | hemlis: That might vary by jurisdiction, but in the USA a copyright doesn't need to be registered to be transferred. And yes, this is not legal advice and I am not a lawyer. | 00:02 |
| hemlis | because if we have a multi-million dollar deal without getting the assignment registered, we are willing trying to obviate the taxes/stamp duties/other registration fees | 00:02 |
| hemlis | pehjota: I am not talking about Registration of a Copyright, I am talking about registration of Deed of Assignment of Copyright | 00:03 |
| hemlis | later is government by Registration Law of the land | 00:03 |
| pehjota | Oh, well I don't know what requirements for transferring/assigning ownership of a copyright exist in your jurisdiction. In the USA, a simple contract between the old and new copyright owners is sufficient. | 00:04 |
| pehjota | You should ask an attorney who knows the copyright law in your jurisdiction for advice. | 00:05 |
| hemlis | pehjota: http://copyright.gov/circs/circ12.pdf | 00:09 |
| hemlis | this says a lot about the transfer | 00:09 |
| hemlis | https://gist.github.com/anonymous/b25a4c86df3b64cb4395 | 00:10 |
| hemlis | Under section 205 of the Copyright Act (title 17 of the United States Code), documents pertaining to such agreements, and other documents pertaining to copyrights, may be recorded in the Copyright Office. | 00:11 |
| hemlis | Recording a transfer of copyright ownership or other document pertaining to a copyright with the Copyright Office under section 205 is voluntary. | 00:11 |
| hemlis | pehjota: I think it is voluntary | 00:11 |
| hemlis | and it is not governed by Registration Law at all | 00:11 |
| pehjota | Ah, § 205. Yes, it's voluntary. See § 204 for what is actually required: <http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap2.html#204>. | 00:11 |
| pehjota | (circ92.pdf has the full copyright law text, if you're interested in a PDF copy of it all.) | 00:12 |
| pehjota | (That is, <http://www.copyright.gov/title17/circ92.pdf>.) | 00:13 |
| hemlis | pehjota: but if we both transfer a property like a small house for just 5,000 USD, we have to pay taxes and duties for registration of the Conveyance Deed ( Sale Deed ) | 00:18 |
| hemlis | and here even if we both do a million dollar assignment deal, it is not required to be registered | 00:18 |
| hemlis | isn't it obviating the duties and taxes to the State ? | 00:19 |
| hemlis | I think it is for the convenience of the common man who holds a copyright and want to give it to another common man | 00:20 |
| hemlis | pehjota: what do you want to say ? | 00:20 |
| pehjota | hemlis: I think the person receiving $1 million has to report that income to the IRS and their state division of taxation and pay the taxes on it. | 00:29 |
| hemlis | pehjota: but same is there even in case of Real Estate Transaction too, additionally they have to compulsorily pay registration fees and stamp duties | 00:31 |
| pehjota | The party receiving the copyright doesn't have to pay any tax or registration fee on it, though. | 00:31 |
| hemlis | ya | 00:31 |
| hemlis | pehjota: thanks for discussion, I am still trying to find out its details in my country | 00:31 |
| pehjota | It used to be that copyrights in the USA had to be registered. But since the Berne Convention and our implementation of it in US law, that's no longer true. | 00:32 |
| hemlis | pehjota: do you know about the statue under which you house would be registered or recorded if you sold it to me ? Kindly provide me with a link | 00:32 |
| hemlis | pehjota: but in order to be able to sue it is still required to be registered | 00:32 |
| pehjota | Copyright exists automatically now, even if it isn't registered. | 00:32 |
| hemlis | sure | 00:32 |
| pehjota | No, registration is useful but not necessary in court. | 00:33 |
| hemlis | but formal registered is required | 00:33 |
| pehjota | Very useful, and not a significant expense compared to court and lawyer fees, but not legally required. | 00:33 |
| pehjota | You don't /need/ to register a copyright to sue over it. But doing so is a very good idea to make sure it holds up in court. | 00:34 |
| hemlis | pehjota: I have read a judgement where it is required wait I give you the citation | 00:35 |
| pehjota | As I said, since the Berne Convention (an international treaty standardizing copyright laws around the world) registration of a copyright isn't required for it to exist. | 00:35 |
| pehjota | But registering it is useful if you end up in court over it. | 00:35 |
| hemlis | Registration as a Prerequisite for Filing Suit | 00:36 |
| hemlis | Copyright registration is a precondition for bringing an infringement lawsuit. The Copyright Act provides that “no action for infringement of the copyright in any United States work shall be instituted until. . . registration of the copyright claim has been made in accordance with this title.” | 00:36 |
| hemlis | 17 U.S.C. § 411(a). There are a number exceptions to this rule, including (1) where the work is not a United States work; (2) where the infringement claim concerns rights of attribution and integrity under Section 106(A); and (3) where the copyright holder attempted to register the work and registration was refused. Id. | 00:37 |
| hemlis | pehjota: I think there is a vast spilt in the courts over this issue | 00:39 |
| hemlis | some refer to "Registration Approach" | 00:40 |
| hemlis | some refer to "Application Approach" | 00:40 |
| mindspillage | In the US, you do not have to have had your copyright registered prior to any infringement in order to be able to bring it to court. You should *usually* have registered it when you are actually bringing it to court. You may seek certain statutory damages for infringement (particularly, large fixed sums of money) if you registered the work before any infringement took place. | 01:15 |
| hemlis | mindspillage: I know that, you have to apply for an application to be allowed to file the suit pending the registration of the work | 01:24 |
| hemlis | mindspillage: are you a lawyer ? | 01:24 |
| mindspillage | Right; you do not have to have registered it for it to exist, and to be something you can register later--it came into existence before you registered it, and infringement against an unregistered copyrighted work is still infringement. | 01:25 |
| mindspillage | hemlis: yes. (Though, obligatory: not your lawyer, speaking in generalities, not giving legal advice, etc., etc.) | 01:25 |
| mindspillage | (also, only paying intermittent attention to IRC at the moment) | 01:27 |
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| hemlis | mindspillage: ok, I am a lawyer too, I don't see the need to state that I am your lawyer or not. Why did you say that my learned senior friend ? | 01:27 |
| hemlis | mindspillage: I was talking about the registration of transfer, which should be made compulsory as it is an attempt to obviate the duties/tax to the State just like it is in a real estate transaction | 01:28 |
| mindspillage | Half in jest and half serious. In jest because giving the disclaimer is intended to jokingly support my claim that I am really a lawyer. And seriously because sometimes I am going to stop participating in a conversation if it gets too far into the details of particular situations. :-P | 01:29 |
| * mindspillage shrugs, not having strong opinions on this, just attempting to be clear about the factual issue in the backscroll. | 01:31 | |
| hemlis | ok | 01:35 |
| hemlis | I like to be lucid when I say stuff on IRC, my point of view is we must have a fixed minimum value above which a transfer of copyrighted material should be made compulsory just like a real estate transaction | 01:37 |
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| hemlis | as even a million dollar copyright assignment is not required to be recorded | 01:38 |
| hemlis | anyways this channel has nothing to do with this | 01:38 |
| hemlis | I started with a question, whether or not we can transfer a Copyright to a Copyleft software completely? | 01:39 |
| mindspillage | I would guess that depends on what you mean by "completely", but my answer would probably be "no". If you've already distributed a work under a copyleft license, you generally can't revoke it. Which means you can't sell an *exclusive* license to someone else because you've already irrevocably granted others some rights under copyright. But you can transfer any rights you have (which don't include the right to exclude people from exercising | 01:42 |
| mindspillage | their right under the copyleft license that you already granted). | 01:42 |
| mindspillage | (You could make a contract for exclusive transfer of your copyright, but you would have already broken it because if you have distributed under a copyleft license already you just cannot perform your end of the deal. But you *can* grant someone else the right to also use and modify the work without restriction, to offer it to the public under additional terms, etc., etc.) | 01:45 |
| mindspillage | This is assuming that a court would agree that licenses to the public which say they are irrevocable are in fact irrevocable. But let's say that is in fact true. (I can't remember if this has been tested or not.) | 01:47 |
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| hemlis | mindspillage: thanks for explanation Sir | 03:54 |
| hemlis | I was busy with clients, drafting work | 03:55 |
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| hemlis | hi | 09:25 |
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| gaganjyot | If there is a MIT software. It uses Dynamic Loading of libraries. It means if Library is found, it does its work otherwise it still works fine. | 12:54 |
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| gaganjyot | it uses a GPL library in dynamic loading method | 12:54 |
| gaganjyot | now since the library is not linked statically or dynamically | 12:55 |
| gaganjyot | it is distributed under MIT | 12:55 |
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| gaganjyot | if a user places the GNU library in /lib it works | 12:55 |
| gaganjyot | is it legal ? or is it allowed ? | 12:55 |
| pehjota | gaganjyot: You mean a permissively licensed program (by the way, "MIT" license can refer to any of multiple licenses, usually either the Expat license or the X11 license) links against a GPL-licensed library? That's fine, and the resulting combined work is licensed under the GPL. (Standard disclaimers apply: IANAL and TINLA.) | 13:01 |
| gaganjyot | pehjota, what I mean is | 13:03 |
| gaganjyot | lets suppose A software X is licensed under MIT | 13:03 |
| gaganjyot | and it uses dynamic loading to load a GPL library. | 13:03 |
| gaganjyot | the GPL library is not statically/dynamically linked. | 13:03 |
| bkuhn | gaganjyot: This is not a help channel for licensing questions, BTW. | 13:04 |
| gaganjyot | if the program finds the requried library, it picks up some function from library and does the work other wise, it just prints a message library not fount | 13:04 |
| bkuhn | gaganjyot: Given your question, the part of the Copyleft Guide that I suggest you study is: http://copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech5.html#x8-300004 | 13:05 |
| gaganjyot | bkuhn, I don't need help about licenses, I need to know if GNU covers this aspect of dynamic loading or not | 13:05 |
| bkuhn | ... as well as https://copyleft.org/guide/comprehensive-gpl-guidech6.html#x9-420005.1 | 13:05 |
| bkuhn | gaganjyot: You've said a contradictory statement there. You are asking a licensing question. :) | 13:06 |
| bkuhn | gaganjyot: have you studied those two sections of the Guide already? Do you have specific questions that those parts of the Guide don't answer that you'd like to see answered? | 13:06 |
| gaganjyot | so basicaly if a user has that library, the software uses the library. does it voilates GPL ? | 13:06 |
| bkuhn | This is a classic question which those two sections I linked to discuss at length. Did you have a question about how those sections explain it? Is there a part of those sections we could improve that would help you? | 13:07 |
| gaganjyot | bkuhn, if you could answer me in brief about my question ? | 13:11 |
| bkuhn | gaganjyot: The question is simply stated but is complex. Once you've studied the sections that I linked to above, and if you have specific ways the Guide could be improved in relation to your question, I'd be delighted to discuss that with you. | 13:13 |
| bkuhn | If that's not what you're looking to do here, you've likely just come to the wrong place. Perhaps the FSF licensing page would be of help otherwise: http://www.fsf.org/licensing | 13:13 |
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| hemlis | hi | 23:31 |
| jxself | hemlis: Hi | 23:31 |
| jxself | Since we're lighting up all the channels. | 23:31 |
| hemlis | O yaaaaa | 23:31 |
| jxself | Since we're lighting up all the channels. | 23:32 |
| hemlis | haha | 23:32 |
| hemlis | you are nuts man | 23:32 |
| hemlis | I thnk donuts type | 23:32 |
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